Journals of the Senate
51 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2002, Canada
Journals of the Senate
2nd Session, 37th Parliament
Issue 4
Thursday, October 3, 2002
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Daniel Hays, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Bryden, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Watt, Wiebe
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Angus, Atkins, Austin, Bacon, Baker, Banks, Beaudoin, Biron, Bolduc, Bryden, Callbeck, Carney, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, Cordy, Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kolber, Kroft, LaPierre, Lapointe, LeBreton, Léger, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Milne, Morin, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pearson, Pépin, Phalen, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Sibbeston, Smith, Sparrow, Spivak, Stollery, Stratton, Taylor, Watt, Wiebe
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Documents
The Honourable the Speaker tabled the following:
Annual Report of the Commissioner of Official Languages 2001-02, pursuant to the Official Languages Act, R.S.C. 1985 (4th Supp.), c. 31, s. 66.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-36.
Introduction and First Reading of Senate Public Bills
The Honourable Senator Kinsella presented a Bill S-6, An Act to assist in the prevention of wrongdoing in the Public Service by establishing a framework for education on ethical practices in the workplace, for dealing with allegations of wrongdoing and for protecting whistleblowers.
The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Wednesday next, October 9, 2002.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the Notice of Motion given earlier this day with respect to the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Motions
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That, for the duration of the current session, when the Senate sits on a Wednesday or Thursday, it do sit at 1:30 p.m., and that Rule 5(1)(a) be suspended in relation thereto.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Other
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That, pursuant to Rule 85(1), the Honourable Senators Bacon, De Bané, Fairbairn, Kinsella, Kolber, LeBreton, Rompkey, Stratton and Tkachuk be appointed a Committee of Selection to nominate (a) a Senator to preside as Speaker pro tempore and (b) the Senators to serve on the several select committees during the present Session; and to report with all convenient speed the names of the Senators so nominated.
After debate,
In amendment, the Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the motion be amended by adding after the last paragraph:
That the Committee of Selection shall nominate Senators to select committees on the basis of the principle that Progressive Conservative Senators have a minimum of one-third of the membership of a select committee.
After debate,
A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the motion in amendment.
After debate,
The Speaker reserved his decision.
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The sitting was suspended.
The sitting resumed.
SPEAKER'S RULING
The question was whether an amendment moved by Senator Kinsella is in order. I will begin by reading the motion in amendment of Senator Kinsella, seconded by Senator Stratton:
That the motion be amended by adding after the last paragraph:
That the Committee of Selection shall nominate Senators to select committees on the basis of the principle that Progressive Conservative Senators have a minimum of one-third of the membership of select committees.
As to the question of whether that amendment is in order, I refer honourable senators to Beauchesne's Parliamentary Rules & Forms, 6th edition, at page 176, paragraph 579, which deals with inadmissible amendments. I will read this paragraph in that I rule it is the only one relevant to this question. The first part of the paragraph states:
An amendment setting forth a proposition dealing with a matter which is foreign to the proposition involved in the main motion is not relevant and cannot be moved.
I find that the proposition contained in Senator Kinsella's amendment is not foreign to the main motion.
The second part of the paragraph states:
An amendment may not raise a new question which can only be considered as a distinct motion after proper notice.
I rule that Senator Kinsella's amendment does not raise such a new question. Accordingly, I find that this amendment is not an instruction such as a new order of reference.
Rule 85(1) provides the Selection Committee with the order of reference. The amendment in question merely expands the order of reference. Accordingly, I find the amendment to be in order.
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That, pursuant to Rule 85(1), the Honourable Senators Bacon, De Bané, Fairbairn, Kinsella, Kolber, LeBreton, Rompkey, Stratton and Tkachuk be appointed a Committee of Selection to nominate (a) a Senator to preside as Speaker pro tempore and (b) the Senators to serve on the several select committees during the present Session; and to report with all convenient speed the names of the Senators so nominated,
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the motion be amended by adding after the last paragraph:
That the Committee of Selection shall nominate Senators to select committees on the basis of the principle that Progressive Conservative Senators have a minimum of one-third of the membership of a select committee.
After debate,
The question was put on the motion in amendment.
Pursuant to Rule 67(1), a deferred vote was requested.
A Point of Order was raised as to the acceptability of the standing vote being deferred.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
We are at a point in a division just prior to the bells ringing to call in the senators. In the course of a discussion on whether the bell be one hour, it was put by the opposition whip, as the rules provide, that the vote be deferred to the next sitting day at 5:30, which gave rise to Senator Carstairs' point of order which is that, because of the provisions of rules 85(1) and (2), there can be no deferral of the vote because we are so close to the fifth day — we are on the fourth day — and therefore, I should not look to those procedural rules, but only to rule 85.
By way of a ruling, I would not be able to consider that until the question is ripe; that is, until the Senate is on the fifth day, because that would interfere with matters that the Senate, itself, is responsible for and that the rules provide are engaged by the Senate and senators until such time as that question might arise. I do not rule on that question. It is not timely to rule on it until we are faced with it.
The next sitting day could be tomorrow, if the vote is deferred to tomorrow and taken tomorrow. If the government whip uses the rules, it could be deferred to the next sitting day, which could be tomorrow or the next sitting day next week.
In any event, my ruling is that it is not timely to rule on the point of order because we are not at the fifth day.
Whereupon, the Speaker's Ruling was appealed.
The question then being put on whether the Speaker's Ruling shall be sustained, it was negatived on the following division:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Atkins, Beaudoin, Cools, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Murray, Oliver, Prud'homme, Sibbeston, Stratton, Taylor—13
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Bacon, Baker, Banks, Biron, Carstairs, Cook, Corbin, Cordy, De Bané, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Hubley, Jaffer, Kenny, Kolber, LaPierre, Lapointe, Léger, Maheu, Mahovlich, Milne, Pearson, Phalen, Poulin, Robichaud, Rompkey, Setlakwe, Stollery, Wiebe—34
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Nil
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The sitting was suspended.
The sitting resumed.
With leave of the Senate,
The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Kinsella, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that the motion be amended by adding after the last paragraph:
That the Committee of Selection shall nominate Senators to select committees on the basis of the principle that Progressive Conservative Senators have a minimum of one-third of the membership of a select committee.
The motion in amendment was adopted.
The question was then put on the motion, as amended, of the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That, pursuant to Rule 85(1), the Honourable Senators Bacon, De Bané, Fairbairn, Kinsella, Kolber, LeBreton, Rompkey, Stratton and Tkachuk be appointed a Committee of Selection to nominate (a) a Senator to preside as Speaker pro tempore and (b) the Senators to serve on the several select committees during the present Session; and to report with all convenient speed the names of the Senators so nominated.
That the Committee of Selection shall nominate Senators to select committees on the basis of the principle that Progressive Conservative Senators have a minimum of one-third of the membership of a select committee.
The motion, as amended, was adopted.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Kenny moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks:
That, within three sitting days of the adoption of this motion, the Leader of the Government shall provide the Senate with a comprehensive government response to the report of the Standing Committee on National Security and Defence entitled: Canadian Security and Military Preparedness, tabled on February 28, 2002.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Stratton, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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With leave,
The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday next, October 8, 2002, at 2:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Report of the Columbia River Treaty Permanent Engineering Board to the Governments of the United States and Canada for the year ended September 30, 1998.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-16.
Report of the Columbia River Treaty Permanent Engineering Board to the Governments of the United States and Canada for the year ended September 30, 1999.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-17.
Report of the Columbia River Treaty Permanent Engineering Board to the Governments of the United States and Canada for the year ended September 30, 2000.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-18.
Report on the administration and enforcement of the Energy Efficiency Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2001, pursuant to the Act, S.C. 1992, c. 36, s. 36.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-19.
Report on the State of Canada's Forests for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Department of Natural Resources Act, S.C. 1994, c. 41, sbs. 7(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-20.
Reports of the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-21.
Reports of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37- 22.
Report of the Cape Breton Development Corporation, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-23.
Report on the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2001, pursuant to the Act, S.C. 1988, c. 28, ss. 231 and 238.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-24.
Report on the administration of the Canada Petroleum Resources Act for the year 2001, pursuant to the Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. 36 (2nd Supp.), s. 109.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-25.
Report of the Canada-Newfoundland Offshore Petroleum Board, together with the Auditors' Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Canada-Newfoundland Atlantic Accord Implementation Act, S.C. 1987, c. 3, sbs. 29(3). —Sessional Paper No. 2/37-26.
Report of the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Board, together with the Auditors' Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act, S.C. 1988, c. 28, sbs. 30(3).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-27.
Report of the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Nuclear Safety and Control Act, S.C. 1997, c. 9, s. 72.—Sessional Paper No. 2/ 37-28.
Reports of the Canada-Newfoundland Offshore Petroleum Board for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-29.
Reports of the Department of Natural Resources for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1 and P-21, sbs. 72(2).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-30.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2002-03 to 2006-07 and of the Capital and Operating Budgets for 2002-03 of the Cape Breton Development Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-31.
Report of the National Capital Commission for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Alternative Fuels Act, S.C. 1995, c. 20, s. 8.—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-32.
Report of the Atomic Energy of Canada Limited, together with the Auditor General's Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2002, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-33.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 2002-06 and of the Capital Budget for 2002 of the Canada Development Investment Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-34.
Report on the provisions and operation of the Copyright Act entitled ``Supporting Culture and Innovation: Report on the Provisions and Operation of the Copyright Act'', pursuant to the Copyright Act, S.C. 1997, c. 24, sbs. 92(1).—Sessional Paper No. 2/37-35.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rompkey, P.C.:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 6:07 p.m. the Senate was continued until Tuesday next, October 8, 2002, at 2:00 p.m.)